The Blue Site: The Muslim Connections

The Muslim Connections

I am reading this book called Al Qeada, Brotherhood of Terror, and it's talking about the organization and how it works. It also goes into the history of Islam. After reading some of this stuff, I have no idea how Muslims can claim they follow the true prophet of God. Jesus was clearly a peaceful men (even many atheists say he was the greatest moral teacher who has ever lived,) and he surely didn't go around killing people or battling in any wars. Muhammed, on the other hand, battled and killed other armies for years. This quote, his final words to his followers really scares me...how anyone can follow this man, I have no idea.

"Know that every Muslim is a Muslim's brother and that all Muslims are brethren, fighting between them should be avoided, and the bloodshed in ancient days should be avenged. Muslims should fight all other men until they say, 'There is no God but allah."

Now, the Bible isn't free of violence. God instructed many people to pour out his vengenance upon groups who refused to turn from their wicked ways. But...there's a clear difference (atleast in my eyes.) God commanded entire nations to act accordingly to his word, and he gave them chance upon chance. Many of them refused to obey, so he destroyed them for their evil ways. Jesus, himself, never acted in violence. Muhammed spend years massacring the Jews near Medina. He took Mecca by force...and the above quote is the last thing he said to his people. Jesus' last words to his followers were words of peace. You make the decision. Who do you choose? Islam, in my opinion, is a religion of violence...the terrorists- they're simply following the prophet's command. Kill all the infidels until they bow to allah. How billions of people could know all of this and be so mislead, I have no idea...I will pray for you all.

Posted by Josh at April 19, 2003 12:26 AM

Of course the Infidels site is biased, but you seemed to totally ignore the fact that I also linked to an extensive rebuttal by a Christian site that addressed every point in the Infidels article. You're just looking for things to disagree with, which was obvious from the beginning, which is why this is all pointless. The point of those two links was to show that this person had read the Bible and come up with a long list of contradictions and it took a Christian that was knowledgeable in the Bible and the CONTEXT of the Bible to give a clear understanding of the scripture in general and how Christians view it.

Also, just because a perspective is biased does not mean that it is totally worthless. I didn't say that the book that you read was lying, I was implying that you need to supplement it with another perspective. I'm sure that the Al Qaeda book that you read had lots of good info (though every opinion that I've read on it says that its a rehash of post 9/11 "Why do they hate us?" newcasts), but (as evidenced with the second link that you chose to ignore) when studying a religion, you can't depend solely on outsiders to get a true understanding of what they feel and how they feel it. Then maybe you're the type that does research for things that he agrees with with no consideration that the other side might have legitimate points.

As for the slave to God thing, many Christians feel the exact same way.

Also, there is nothing logical about the choices that you put forth. As a matter of fact, your argument about Judaism and Christianity being the logical choices because they came first is qualifiably illogical. I hate to break this to you but there is not a whole lot that is new or fresh about Judasim or Christianity. An easy way to undermine an argument is to try to bridge logic and religion (especially the notion of salvation which in and of itself can qualify as a logical fallacy), hence the "faith" part.

The bit about women in the Qu'ran is misguided too. Are you telling me with a straight face that the New Testament says nothing that encourages the subjugation of women?

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men. She is to keep silent, for Adam was formed first then Eve, and Adam was not deceived but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." - Timothy 2:11

"For if a woman will not veil herself then she should cut off her hair, but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil...for man was not created from woman but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman but woman for man." - Corinthians 11:6

The bright side is that the Bible and Qu'ran aren't alone in this, many of our far east brethren have the same teachings.

Do you know WHY there is an explicit freedom of religion in the United States? Because the people who came over here were persecuted for their religious beliefs and didn't want it to happen again. Here's a trinket: They didn't come from a Muslim country. Christians can be just as zealous as anyone else given the power and will.

There are Billions of people that live under secular govermnments that are not Christian. If every Muslim and Jew in the world converted to Christianity the Christians would still be outnumbered. I suppose their governments are keeping them away too?

It's late... gotta go.

Posted by: Rashid Muhammad at May 11, 2003 10:44 PM

One problem you mentioned...Muslims do think they're slaves to Allah. When I said he was the way to God, I simply meant...he is the supposed messenger. You cannot link the infidel site and expect me to take any of that serious...they're main goal is to bash christianity nonstop. So, that source is completely biased. As for proof in Jesus and the Bible...the prophectic proof from the bible is, simply put- amazing...no such proof exists in the koran...and the resurrection of christ...that deserves a lot of credit as well...even many non christians believe that much...

in the end, there is simply no proof for islam...it's totally a copycat religion that stole half of christianity and added some of muhammeds nonsense "visions" to it...changed the idea of children to, as you mentioned, slaves to god...of course, from what i know of both religions, i surely wouldnt give islam a chance. it came after christianity...after judaism which is the root of christianity...of course if you have to choose between the two judeo christian and islam- the logical choice is clearly the first.

heck, islam has only flourished because of the system of govts within the middle east and various parts of asia...if they werent such closed societies that refuse to let anything but islam in, things would completely change...there would be a huge shift towards christianity. this is all true because except for the conditions that exist in most muslim countries...there is really no logical reason to turn to islam. it offers little to nothing in the way of important answers about life...and it's way too focused on obedience...and, lets not even talk about the treatment of women that is rooted in the koran itself!

Posted by: Joshua Taj Bozeman at May 11, 2003 09:04 PM

First of all, Muslims do not consider Muhammad to be the way to God. Muhammad doesn't have the burden of being characterized as God or the son of man, he is simply a mortal (and flawed, like the rest) messenger:

"Do not over-praise me as the Christians over-praised Jesus the son of Mary. I am His slave, so say: 'God's slave and messenger'."

You must understand that the Muslims (like the Jews) are still waiting for their Christ figure.

As far as proof goes, there is no universally agreeable proof that Jesus was the Christ either without having "faith" in the Bible's accuracy. There are more people perfectly aware of the Biblical teachings who do not accept Jesus as their savior then there are those who do. Hell, half the world doesn't believe in the Bible or Qu'ran. Maybe they wonder how so many Christians, Muslims, and Jews can be so gullible? The 4 Gospels are loaded with supposed contradictions that require very detailed and contextual explanations that are much harder to swallow than the notion that the Prophet Muhammad saying "fight" might not neccessarily mean to make war with all non-Muslims (if you bother to read the response, notice how many times the words "misread" and "misunderstood" come up). Would you deny the word of Islam such a chance? Or does the perceived intelligence of the billion or so followers of it not deserve that?

Mainly extremist groups like Al Quaeda and those who want to associate them with all Muslims would make such conveniently shallow interpretations, especially in light of all of the death and destruction that has (misguidedly) happened in the name of Jesus. The bottom line is that the human mind can see good or evil in whatever it chooses, which is why this conversation is ultimately pointless.

Despite our differences in opinion, I do like your site though. Take it easy.

Posted by: Rashid Muhammad at May 11, 2003 06:28 PM

i have taken my view of islam from a number of courses. this book exposes a lot of the nonsense that muhammed preached. he offered up zero evidence that he was who he said he was...he, like most mulsims, accept what jesus said, yet then turn around and claim that jesus was a liar because muhammed is the only way to god...the basic virtues of islam are illogical. and to take muhammeds last words as anything other than violent is silly if you ask me. you cant misinterpret things that are so clearly stated.

too many things in islam dont make sense. the bulk of the religion is based on some visions a dillusional man that offered no shred of evidence of what he claimed...that itself is completely illogical and a tad bit insane. it's nearly as scary (hell maybe even scarier) than mormons who follow the highly dillusional smith who also offered no evidence of what he claimed and actually turned out to be wrong on a number of occasions (just like mohammed)...

Posted by: Joshua Taj Bozeman at May 11, 2003 01:37 PM

Just happened to come across this site and wanted to make a few comments.

I hope that you really don't expect to have anything other than an overly simplistic view of Islam in 240 page a book about Al Qaeda. People think that they can actually understand something by reading an outsider's interpretation of it. What would you think about an opinion of Christianity based on a book written by a non-Christian on the "Army of God" for a group of Muslims who had just been attacked? The American media would like you to think differently but you can't effectively get the whole story from just one source. In this case it's one perspective, and the ironic thing is that this lack of real perspective dictated by propaganda is precisely what defines groups like Al Qaeda.

Religion is all about interpretation. Common interpretations of scripture are many times different from what the layperson might gather from a casual reading. Remember that these holy books were written in much different times than now and it is important to not only know what they say, but how people understand what they say over the years. The majority of the people... not just the fanatics.

Take your interpretation of the Prophet Muhammed's last words. Many Muslims interpret the fight as an idealogical fight to spread the word of Islam to those who haven't heard it. This is no different from the Christian missionary mandate. In the context of a book on Al Qaeda though, of COURSE it's going to be insinuated that this means a violent fight.

I'm sure that your understanding of the Rapture didn't come so easily, don't expect any real understanding of Islam to be so. Religion is easily the most complex thing that man has ever created.

Posted by: Rashid at May 11, 2003 10:54 AM

you clearly have not studied the bible at all. it doesnt say that non believes will be killed during the rapture. the rapture is followed by a 7 yr rule of the antichrist...followed by the final coming of christ, followed by a thousand yr reign of christ and his followers on earth, followed by eternity with the formation of a new earth/heaven. true islam does NOT believe in peace and humanity. i quoted you muhammed's final words to his followers. the entire koran is really based on what muhammed said. this was clearly a dillusional man who convinced a few other dillusional people that he was having visions from god. if you look- islam really just stole most of christianity, and then distorted it here and there, and called muhammed the true prophet. they stole the idea of a second coming, a final judgement and resurrection, etc. muhammed himself, the center of the religion, fought bloody wars for years...you could easily say if thats the case, its not a religion of peace.

as for the crusades...they started because the christians had to do something to retake the lands of much of europe and asia...the lands that the muslims conquered with bloody force. they started out with good intentions, but some of the men werent content just to get back the land taken over...and it turned out the way it did.

as for the book- it's not propaganda at all, nor is it biased...its simply going into the history of islam. im forming an opinion based on the facts of the religions history and history itself.

Posted by: Joshua Taj Bozeman at April 19, 2003 12:45 PM

BTW, if you're basing your information on Islam solely on that book you have, I would have to say it doesn't tell the full story of Islam, and is obviously bias against the Islamic faith and a clear form of propaganda...

I'm not being paranoid, but it's true.

If you really want to be informed on the full scope of the Islamic faith, pic up a Coran and have a good reading with it.

You will see the faith is made up of many spiritual leaders who want peace foe the people of Islam....

Unfortunately, the part of the world where this religion came from was one of great tension and violence, hence the wars.

But it roots a little deeper than that book obviously makes it out to be.

Posted by: HOODLUMinc at April 19, 2003 11:09 AM

Al Queda and other such organizations distort a lot of what the Islamic religion is really about...mainly to get people to serve their goals....

True Islam believs in peace within humanity.

I studied a lot of religions on a non professional bases (mainly for my own knowledge) and you would be surprised just how many religions distort passages to endorse violence...

The Christian religion is not oblivious to such actions either...

Mainly regarding to the christian crusades where millions were slaughtered for not converting to Christianity...

The Christian faith does not offically endorse the slaughter of other human beings, but mainly like that passage you quoted (from the Coran I assume?) the Holy Bible has a similar, but more vague approach when it talks about the rapture and how all non belivers will be killed....

I'm not a religious person, but like to be kept informed on all forms of it just in case, and over the years of studying different forms of it, I have noticed them all to be basically the same theme with slightly different passages and messages..

Posted by: HOODLUMinc at April 19, 2003 11:01 AM